Joss Whedon talks Avengers 3

When Joss Whedon’s Avengers: Age of Ultron
was filming in London last summer, I got to visit
the set along with a few other reporters. Like
most Marvel set visits, they let us talk to the
entire cast and watch filming. While the
production was guarded about what they were
willing to tell us, we learned a ton of cool secrets
behind what’s bound to be one of the biggest
films of 2015. In The Avengers sequel, Iron Man
( Robert Downey Jr. ), Captain America ( Chris
Evans ), Thor ( Chris Hemsworth ), Hulk ( Mark
Ruffalo ), Black Widow ( Scarlett Johansson ), and
Hawkeye ( Jeremy Renner) reunite to stop Ultron
( James Spader ) from carrying out his sinister
plan. The film also stars Elizabeth Olsen , Aaron
Taylor-Johnson , Paul Bettany , Don Cheadle, Andy
Serkis, and Samuel L. Jackson.
While on set, I participated in a great group
interview with Joss Whedon. He talked about
how making The Avengers sequel was different
from the first film, the look of the Vision, when
he first started coming up with ideas for the
sequel, the success of the Hulk in the first film,
Ultron, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye,
James Spader, and so much more. Hit the jump
for what he had to say.
Before going any further, if you have yet to see
the Avengers: Age of Ultron trailer , I’d watch that
first.
Question: What was your head like going into
this movie and what were you set out to do
differently?
JOSS WHEDON: Yeah, the first one, it was a
raggedy me that made that film. It did take a lot
out of me. Going in this time, I just had to sort of
recalibrate my entire existence and throw myself
into it more wholeheartedly and say, “Okay, I’m
actually going to make it harder to make from the
last one. I’m gonna just invest myself in every
part of it, in every production meeting, in every
location scout, and every question about a prop
that I’d like to avoid. I might even work harder on
the script. There’s nothing in it that I’m not going
to let tear me apart. I’m just gonna give myself
up to it… like a Christian to a lion.
I’m curious about the look of the Vision and how
it’s going to evolve. Are you still working on how
it’s gonna look?
WHEDON: No, we make them as close as we
can. The stunt guy, we have to make allowances
for the shape of his face and padding and things
that we’re putting on him, but they’re not meant
to look different. Basically, what usually happens
is, one of the guys, Ryan Meinderding or one of
the guys on his staff draws something
unbelievably beautiful, and we try to create that in
real life, and it takes a long time. The first tests
were very Violet Beaurogarde. It really took a long
time to get to a place where we felt like… even
though we will work on him in post… he walks on
and we go, “Oh, it’s The Vision! My God!”
That was our reaction when we walked out there.
WHEDON: Yeah, and of course, I wanted Paul to
play this part since before I wanted to make an
Avengers movie. Let’s face it, it’s about cheek
bones, people.
When did you first start coming up with ideas for
the sequel, and were your first ideas the ones
you’re actually making?
WHEDON: Yeah, before I took the first job, I said,
“Well, I don’t know if I’m right for this or if I want
it or you want me, but in the second one, the
villain has Ultron and he has to create the Vision,
and then, that has to be Paul Bettany.” (laughter)
It took me three years before I could tell Paul that
I’d had that conversation, but after that, I
stopped. I was like, “That would be cool if
there’s you have Ultron and you have Vision and
Paul played him, and Scarlet Witch and Pietro,
definitely. They’re from my era, they’re very
different, their powers are different, it’s not all
punching, it gives a different palettes, we can do
more interesting things, it’s fun; those things
were absolutes.
But then I didn’t actually want to make the film
necessarily. I was ragged from the first one, and
so I just turned off my brain. I was like, “Do not
think of cool ideas for the next one. Just get
through this.” But after a few months when they
talked about actually paying me, I would say,
“Alright, this is now something that makes sense
in my life; do I have anything to say?” And so my
agent called. I was in London, and he called and
said, “You know, there’s a deal that’s worth
talking about. Time to start to thinking about
whether there’s a movie,” and I’m going, “Alright.”
I went to a pub, and sat down with my notebook,
and about forty-five minutes later, my notebook
was filled. And I texted my agent, “Yeah. I have
so many things to say.” I was kind of surprised.
It took me unawares. It was very beautiful.
Introducing characters like Pietro who I know is a
favorite of yours. When you’re inserting them
here, are you always thinking, “I’m inserting this
character and now I’m building this huge arc that
is going to play out over phase three or phase
four”?
WHEDON: Yeah, I mean, you’re aware of that, but
you sort of can’t be slavish to it. One, I think the
biggest mistake in the world of franchising is…
well, as he says in Gattaca: “Know how I beat
you? I didn’t save anything for the way back.”
Don’t worry about, “Well, we can do something
next time.” It’s like, whatever you want, get it in
there. Not that we can do everything with every
character but you wanna get an arc that’s
complete. You don’t want people to think “Wow,
that’s part one of something” or even part two of
something. I have been lambasted for criticizing
Empire Strikes Back. I wasn’t criticizing the film
which I love very much. I was saying that the
experience of having a movie not end, it’s weird
for me and kind of disturbing. For me, I need to
get everything in that I need from him, and then if
he continues, either I or somebody else will need
more. These characters have existed in their
iconic narratives for longer than I’ve been around,
which is just really long.
When you filled your notebook up are the ideas
you wrote down the ones you’re doing?
WHEDON: A lot of them, a lot of them. And
there’s some that you’re like, “This is the heart of
the… no, that doesn’t work.” But yeah, generally
speaking, it’s character stuff, really. It’s not
necessarily… it’s definitely not plot stuff because
that’s the stuff that you can pull out of yourself
with agony. The character stuff of, “Oh these
people connect and these people can’t connect,”
and we can tear them the part and bring them
together, and you know, have this insight into the
character, that’s the stuff that makes me wanna
make a film, not like, “Oh and then there’s a cool
plot twist.” I have to have a mind for that.
Can you talk about the success of the Hulk in the
first film? Did you want to preserve him for the
world of the Avengers?
WHEDON: Well, I wasn’t the one who said, “Don’t
make a Hulk film” or anything like that. Kevin
said to me, “We think right now it’s good to have
somebody that you can only have in the
Avengers.” There may be rights issues, I have no
idea. Everybody loves Mark. He’s phenomenal,
but the fact there hasn’t been a Hulk since that
Hulk doesn’t suck. My job is hard enough, you
know. Cap’s had a movie, Thor’s had a movie.
Everyone’s gone through big changes, Iron Man’s
had a movie, so I have to juggle everybody’s
perception of that while still making a movie that
you can see having not seen any except the first
Avengers or not even that.
You said that the movie is much bigger this time
around, so how much bigger?
WHEDON: I don’t remember saying it was bigger.
I remember saying it was harder… but it is
bigger. The cast is bigger. The scope is bigger.
We have more to work with, not that we’re trying
to spend more. In fact, we’re trying to avoid
bloat wherever possible. But with this, we’re on a
broader canvas, we’re in more countries. We
have a bigger world to work with and a bigger
world for them just to be in. Once they exist as a
team, we have to deal with what everybody
thinks about that, and what that means to the
world. So it’s not as simple as it was.
Is there a kind of a Dr. Frankenstein and his
monster thing happening with Tony Stark and
Ultron?
WHEDON: In the Marvel universe, there’s a lot of
Frankensteins. Steve Rogers himself, one of the
better-looking Frankensteins of our era. Yeah,
there’s always an element to that. There’s a lot
of people, whether they’re trying to do good or
bad, who think they have the next big idea. And
the next big idea is usually a very bad one.
You talked in the past about how the Hulk is
probably one of the harder characters to adapt
into a live-action film. Giving him a bigger role
in this film I’m curious exactly how are you
handling that? We know that Bruce has his
hands in the creation of Ultron, so I was curious
if you can talk about the expansion of Hulk’s
character and if we’ll hear him talk more this
time around?
WHEDON: His monologue about his childhood is
very poignant… and lacks pronouns. No. The
talking thing is something that I sort of pitch it
and I take it away. It’s moment to moment.
Done wrong, it could kill ya, so I’m pretty leery
about that. But Banner, you know, has a
significant role, and the Hulk, we really held back
on him for a long while in the first one. And said,
“There’s something terrible coming that you’ll
love.” Which is what makes the Hulk so hard to
write is that you’re pretending he’s a werewolf
when he’s a superhero. You want it vice versa.
You want to see him, Banner doesn’t want to see
him, but you don’t want Banner to be that guy
who gets in the way of you seeing him. So the
question is, how has he progressed? How can we
bring changes on what the Hulk does? And that’s
not just in the screenplay, that’s moment to
moment, because even when they are putting in
temp mix they have a library of two
roars. “Aaarrgh! Uuurrgh!” What if he wasn’t
roaring? I’m angry, and I’m not roaring. I’m
being very polite to a lot of reporters and I’m
filled with rage. (laughter)
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, you brought them
in, and you have the Vision. That’s like a second
team like Hawkeye and Captain America in the
old days. And they’re not mutants now. Are you
bringing them in with the age of miracles? Are
they going to be an Inhuman thing? Is there an
explanation besides just war technology?
WHEDON: Strucker’s been doing experiments, and
he’s got the scepter, and he’s been using alien
tech to do them. It’s kind of where I landed with
that, but look for an exciting retcon in Avengers
6!
In terms of coming back to write a sequel, now
you’ve worked with this cast and you’ve had that
first experience, does that help you find the voice
the second time around? Are things that you
knew that you wanted to do specifically because
of the actors?
WHEDON: Yeah, I mean, most of them had
already played the parts before even the first one,
and it’s hard not to hear Robert Downey in your
head. He’s very distinctive. It’s been easier. It’s
been easier for me to give them what they are
comfortable with, and also to let them sort of
mold stuff a little bit, you know? There are
certain things where I’m like, if you want to make
this more your own in some way I haven’t
thought of yet, we have mutual trust, where if I
say, “I know this feels weird, but I need it.” And
they will back me. And if they say, “I feel like I
could come at this differently,” I will back them,
because, you know, we’re creating those
characters together, and they will always see
something that I missed. And they will always
have some little insight, especially when all ten of
them are in a room. I’ve got all of these
enormously interesting actors playing enormously
interesting characters. I’m not going to get every
nuance of everybody, and somebody will say,
“Wait a minute. Aren’t I dead already in this
scene? Should I have so many lines?” “Right,
good point. Sorry.” By the way, please don’t
turn that into a headline. I’m so sick of reading
about killing people. (laughter) A joke.
Where’s does Wanda fall in the sort of tradition
of the strong but somewhat damaged-by-powers
characters that you’ve written in the past, like
Buffy?
WHEDON: Well, you know, “strong but damaged
by power” describes every person in this movie.
It may, in fact, describe what the movie is about.
You know, the more power that we have, the less
human we are. Her damage pre-dates her power,
and these kids, they’ve had a rough history. But
is she in an idiom with which I am comfortable?
Why, yes sir, she is. (laughter)
We’ve gotten a glimpse of the relationship
between Wanda and Pietro and we know that Iron
Man and Ultron are tied together. Was there an
organic way to bring those two stories together?
They felt like two separate stories in a lot of
ways.
WHEDON: They did. They did, and that was, you
know, a concern for Marvel for a long time, but a
lot of the working out of the story was how do
we get these things connect? I’m not probably
going to explain that, but it’s very important to
me that they do feel like part of the same story,
and part of the same universe, and all their
origins are tied up in each other.
During Phase Two, Hawkeye wasn’t around too
much, and I’m curious if we’re gonna find out
what he’s been up to in this film?
WHEDON: Um, yeah, we are. ‘Cause something’s
up with that boy. That’s all I’m gonna say.
About the character of Ultron, when you have a
guy like Spader who has an incredible presence,
which I imagine lends itself to the character quite
well, but I’m curious, how is he acting in a
general scene amongst humans, his open
philosophy, how that kind of translates to the
screen?
WHEDON: Well, Ultron feels a certain distance
from humanity, and the day Spader got here we
put on the mocap pajamas, a giant thing with red
dots on it for his eye line, and a giant pack, and a
helmet with two cameras in his face with lights
to record his performance. He then did a scene
with Scarlet, but not looking him in eye because
she was looking up in his eye line, nor could he
see her because he had two lights shining in his
face, and he had his glasses on. Therefore, he
has a certain distance from humanity, too. God
bless him, he was wonderful, and very game and
has been the whole time. Very interested in the
mechanics of the mechanics, and of you know,
finding the humanity. He and I share a genuine
love of this version of Ultron, and he has an
innate eccentricity in his delivery that is
everything that I had hoped Ultron would be.
How is he different from other villains you’ve
seen in superhero movies?
WHEDON: I think for me, there’s always a point
where I’m writing them where I’m like “They’re
right! The Avengers suck! We got to do
something about that. We got to take care of
these guys.” Hopefully, you will come out of this,
if not agreeing with him then getting him, and
getting his pain, which leads to a lot of damage,
and some humo. How’s he different? I mean,
villains are different from each other. The
important thing for me is he’s not this external
thing. He’s not Independence Day . Not that I’m
criticizing that movie, but it’s not like we spent
some time on the alien going “Oh, I hate that Will
Smith! Punched me right in the face my first day
there!” (laughter) When he’s in his scenes, you
want to feel like he will never understand that
he’s not the hero.
With Quicksilver, did the X-Men Quicksilver that
just came out change your visual approach to
anything? The speedshots?
WHEDON: Not really. I mean, there’s some things
that we now would probably care to avoid just so
that we’re not… But we were never doing the
same version. Obviously, at some point we’ll go
into slow-mo because that’s what’s fun about a
super-speedy guy. For me, what’s fun about
Quicksilver isn’t necessarily seeing Quicksilver,
it’s seeing the Avengers the way he does. They
really took to the mattresses with that one scene,
but he’s just a very different guy in ours and I
think we’re just kind of proceeding as planned.
Could you talk about working as a filmmaker on
a studio film? You and James Gunn have worked
within the studio system before, but you also
were working with your own characters at that
time. What’s it like playing with someone else’s
character in a studio film like this?
WHEDON: Well, I’m aware of can’t do that or say
that. I know that I work for Disney. I know that I
want children to see this film and not have
nightmares about it. But I understand the
parameters, and at the same time, I don’t know
of a place that would let me make a film this
personal for this much money. Marvel, I feel like
they treat the movies, or they have for me–my
experience of it–like they treat the comic books.
When a new writer and artist comes on board,
they have their own vision of what it is, and they
respect that, because they can’t say, “Rom Lim,
draw like John Buscema.” He can’t. I get to
make a movie that’s very much about the things I
need to talk about, and sometimes, I forget that
during the whole process because these
characters are so dear to me from before, and
they belong to them, but then when the thing
shakes out, it’s very much the movie I dreamed
of, and that’s why I’m back.
When making The Avengers , you already knew
that Ultron’s gonna be the guy. The same with
Vision and the twins as well. Are you already
trying to plan out in your mind that every
character leads to something else? Are you
already thinking big ideas for how stuff will
connect down the road into Avengers 3?
WHEDON: There comes a point in filming when
you are writing, filming and editing, and, you
cannot make a grocery list. I haven’t had a good
idea about anything. I’m so excited that I’m
wearing underwear, that I got that right today.
Every now and then, it’ll happen, but right now
we’re just past the halfway point, and I’m still
finessing and finessing and finessing, and I got
nothing. I do this, I go home, I rewrite, I go to
sleep. I do this, I go home, I rewrite, I go to
sleep.